January 21, 2021 at 3:56 pm #11097
I’ve been running a Hellfrost Campaign using Adventure Edition and my spell conversion weekly since May. Overall, it’s working fine. I have two players new to Savage Worlds, two who have played with me for over a decade, and one who played a little bit of Deadland’s with me.
The powers as I converted them seem to be fine. We haven’t had issues with Power Points seeming too cheap or two costly. I have to keep remembering to up the Toughness on most foes from the books, since each Armour moved up +1 toughness since Deluxe Edition.
The Alchemy edge has become overpowered, since boosting a spell that is being infused is now a matter of power points instead of minuses to the rolls. I think the solution is for me to say that every Power Point put into an additional effect becomes a -1 on the Knowledge(Alchemy) roll.
Now that I’ve gotten used to the changes in Adventure Edition, I really like it. It feels like its easier for players to just describe what they want to do, and for me to make a call on what to roll and what modifiers.
So far they have been mired in the Nobility of the Magocracy, travelled through the fey realms of Alfheim, and emerged to find that the undead have fled the Withered Lands. One of the Liches has taken Hellfrost Keep, undead are swarming over the Freelands, the Magocracy has fractured, and undead have been seen in Angarion forest for the first time in memory. It is rumoured that the seals on the Liche-Priest’s tomb have now fully failed and that he may have arisen.
Tons of fun.
"You've taken your first step into a larger world" - Obi Wan KenobiJanuary 21, 2021 at 8:27 pm #11098SalieriCMinion
I am not a fan of Reds conversion. Honestly – and I mean no offense at all – I find it pretty annoying to have Power Points in Hellfrost. It doesn’t fit the setting at all and also is not neccessary in any way.
I’ve converted most of the setting myself. It wasn’t a lot of effort and I have it all in Foundry now. Classic and Land of Fire. Pretty much the only thing that causes a bit of issues are the Powers but Isolved this by just not using the new ones. Everything else is super easy. Drop all skills with a knowledge feeling like Academics or Science and use the original knowledge Skills. The status effects integrate nicely with the new tests and support works as in SWADE as well. Stunned is a rare effect in Hellfrost and rightfully so. Edges and Hindrances needed not a lot of work as well: Just drop the Charisma Stat and apply a bonus to Persuasion and Performance where it made sense. I adjusted the values slightly where I felt it to be neccessary. Song Mages may choose to use either Performance or Knowledge (Folklore) to tell a tale. The difference is in role play (singing it as a Song or telling it).
Interestingly enough, Hellfrost already has some spell modifiers so I went with them where I felt it was appropriate. Just use half the power points of the modifier rounded up as a modifier to the roll. I only rarely allowed this but where I did it works great.
Only a very few Spiels from SWADE are used. The prime example being entangle which was necessary to convert because of the new status effects bound and entangled. Not a big deal to convert though. Mainly use the Hellfrost power and apply the effects on success and raise from SWADE, that’s it.
Add powers to the power lists where you feel they should be there. For example water elementalists can learn stun, fire elementalists can not. When there are powers in SWADE and Hellfrost, always favour the ones from Hellfrost.
Some Power Modifiers can never be taken from SWADE, especially Selective as it is covered by an Edge in Hellfrost.
Biggest problem for me is the bestiary but once you decided on how to handle that it’s fine. Just add the core skills where appropriate, mostly they are fine on the site type of their linked attribute. Common knowledge is covered in Hellfrost as well, only difference being that it is a skill now and not covered by smarts any longer. Most special abilities work fine, with some minor tweaks here or there. Add stuff like Resilient where you feel appropriate and always use the guidelines on Size (esp. regarding extra Wounds) from SWADE.
And that’s basically it. Just apply some common sense and touch the magic system as little as possible and you’ll end up having the good old Hellfrost feeling without the crappy power points. I’ve converted EVERYTHING that way. I have all the core stuff, the supplements, the atlas and everything from land of fire and its Realm Guides in my Foundry converted like this and it is a lot of fun. Doesn’t feel inconsistent at all. Ofc Wiggy could do a lot better but it is solid enough until he can get back to Hellfrost.January 22, 2021 at 1:49 am #11099
I have no problem at all with you enjoying a different style of game. But here is my experience…
I played a lot of Hellfrost when it first came out, but for me the lack of power points became a big problem. I never once had a situation where the characters came out of a combat with any injuries. They just kept re-rolling Healing until everyone was fully healed. And they used their bennies to reroll any Siphoning rolls. In one year of play, there was only ever one Siphoning, and spells were always up and characters never suffered anything more than temporary injuries (one combat).
So for me the lack of Power Points was Hellfrost’s biggest failing. Putting them back in has made it great for us. Of course Adventure Edition has given some bonuses, like spending a benny to get back 5 PP, which has made magic a bit more powerful, but to me it definitely feels more like the intent of Savage Worlds than the original Hellfrost did.
I only wish the official 2nd Edition release was out, because I didn’t pre-playtest my own conversion. I’m sure a lot of Edges and rules could be cleaned up better than I have done.
Here’s hoping Wiggy is on his way towards a full recovery so that he can make this game even better.
"You've taken your first step into a larger world" - Obi Wan KenobiJanuary 22, 2021 at 6:34 am #11100SalieriCMinion
I see your point, but for me that was always the big point of Hellfrost. It also wasn’t so bad for me because I have the critical failures rule in my games for a very long time now. So players were never able to reroll Snake Eyes. I’ve seen characters loosing their powers and Song Mages who never rolled Snake Eyes alike. (Like, really, in a weekly two year long campaign the Skald never rolled a single snake eyes.)
If your introduction of Power Points is more fun for you that’s great but I certainly don’t like that as I never had a problem with the way Hellfrost does it and I hope that this isn’t something that will be fixed in a new version.
Honestly, I would prefer Land of Water over a second Edition of Hellfrost classic. 😀January 22, 2021 at 3:57 pm #11101CendragonMinion
Great discussion here! First and foremost I hope Wiggy is feeling better soon.
For me, while I looked a little at the Hellfrost Lore and found it interesting, I was primarily interested in a system I could use to play the 5e D&D adventure Rime of the Frost Maiden with Savage Worlds.
There’s a Savage Pathfinder kickstarter that I backed and I’ll likely use that for my mechanics, though I am interested in whatever new Hellfrost products are released because it specifically addresses the cold theme/element.
Also, I like the power points so thank you Red for making that conversion!January 29, 2022 at 9:50 pm #11344gravelboneMinion
I have mixed feelings about Power Points in Hellfrost, while I liked not having to worry about tracking them for the “monsters”, sometimes the spell maintenance would get out of hand, especially spells like Mimic and Invisibility (the disadvantage to Invisibility noted in the player’s guide never seemed to come up.)
When you implemented Power Points, did you default all monsters to 10pp, or did you add some added advantages?
When there was an edge in both SWADE and HPG, did you default to SWADE or HPG? For instance Concentration.
I only ask because I’m curious how it plays out and as I prep to start up a Hellfrost campaign with SWADE rules, I’m pretty much using your conversion. 🙂January 30, 2022 at 1:56 am #11345
I typically give 10-20 pp to monsters/NPCs depending on how high level I think they should be. Taxmagulus the Liche had 50 PP for example.
I typically default to SWADE. I love the Hellfrost setting and we are having much fun with it, but I wish there was an official SWADE version. I would love to see all the material scaled back and integrated. A few less edges, and and updated spells list.
I fear that by the time that ever materializes, I will have moved on from Hellfrost. We’re coming up on two years in our campaign and 4 of the 6 characters are Legendary now. They have just a few more adventures before they attempt to defeat the Liche-Priest.
"You've taken your first step into a larger world" - Obi Wan KenobiJanuary 30, 2022 at 12:44 pm #11346goodmanjeMinion
I seriously doubt a new version of Hellfrost will ever happen. I know the original creator has some health problems and apparently he’s the only one who can do it for some reason. It’s unfortunate… maybe the sales of a new version aren’t predicted to be high enough to make it worthwhile. I have every Hellfrost product created and would invest in a new version the same way if it was available. Oh well… I’ve pretty much quit playing Savage Worlds due to a lack of interesting settings for SWADE. I can’t stand having to convert things or doing homebrew crap. I do have the Savage Pathfinder stuff but I play the regular Pathfinder as well so it’s kind of redundant…January 30, 2022 at 1:32 pm #11347
I’ve pretty much quit playing Savage Worlds due to a lack of interesting settings for SWADE. I can’t stand having to convert things or doing homebrew crap. I do have the Savage Pathfinder stuff but I play the regular Pathfinder as well so it’s kind of redundant…
Why not just play Deluxe then. SWADE has some nice features, but there was nothing inherently wrong with the previous versions.
Also, I’m kinda the other way. Homebrew games really make the best games, where the GM can create and tailor the circumstances based on the characters and what they do and what fits. Premade modules are fine (I’ve run enough of them), but they definitely don’t provide the same immersive experience as homebrew adventures.
But I get it, homebrew is more work. Here I am at 5:30 AM PST responding to forums instead of prepping for my game today.
My plan after this Hellfrost campaign is to run the new Deadlands so that I don’t have to make conversion decisions or write adventures.
"You've taken your first step into a larger world" - Obi Wan KenobiJanuary 30, 2022 at 2:01 pm #11348goodmanjeMinion
Homebrew may have been the wrong term. I love making up my own adventures within a good setting like Hellfrost. When I said homebrew I was talking about having to modify the rules or character options.
Deadlands: The Weird West is probably the only SWADE setting that I find interesting. I have all the material for it but for some reason have had a hard time convincing anyone to try playing it. I’m not sure why… A western setting full of strange creatures and steampunkish technology is cool to me. Lol
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.