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  • #9087
    Awroe
    Minion

    Hi guys, I’m looking for opinions.

    My Hellfrost party has a Skald with the Boost / Lower Trait power. When combat ensues, he typically casts boost strength and boost vigour as a party effect and then maintains them. I’m finding that this is enabling the party to make extremely light work of most fights and they have no fear of any enemy.

    SWD states that the castings can stack so it would appear that the “rules” are being followed. I also appreciate that the spell could be disrupted with attacks on the caster and there are penalties and limits to the caster for maintaining the spells.

    I was wondering if any other GMs have encountered a similar thing?

    I’m wondering if a house rule would balance things out such as:

    A caster may only maintain one instance of a power. (hence only one trait could be boosted or lowered)

    Or

    Each trait to be boosted must be learned as a separate power

    Interested to know your thoughts and opinions folks.

    “Never violate a woman, nor harm a child. Do not lie, cheat or steal. These things are for lesser men. Protect the weak against the evil strong. And never allow thoughts of gain to lead you into the pursuit of evil.”
    David Gemmell.

    #9088
    Quigs
    Minion

    There was a PDF update after Savage Worlds Deluxe was released that stated the following:

    Spells: None of the new spells are available in Hellfrost. Where a spell appears in SWD and the Hellfrost Player’s Guide, the Hellfrost version takes precedent (i.e. multiple bolts of varying damage, and blast not being a Heavy Weapon).
    The new rules for allowing a single casting to affect multiple targets are not used in Hellfrost—Hellfrost magic is already powerful.

    Basically, Boost/Lower trait cannot be used on the entire party in Hellfrost. Your skald can cast a few instances of it individually to boost certain traits on certain characters, but he shouldn’t be allowed to buff the entire party with 1 or 2 spells.

    #9089
    Awroe
    Minion

    Thanks for drawing my attention to that Quigs, I’d missed it.

    That certainly brings things back in to balance.

    “Never violate a woman, nor harm a child. Do not lie, cheat or steal. These things are for lesser men. Protect the weak against the evil strong. And never allow thoughts of gain to lead you into the pursuit of evil.”
    David Gemmell.

    #9090
    Cnut
    Minion

    I missed this as well, and it will certainly help balance the power a bit in my campaign as well.

    Life is not a dress rehearsal.

    #9091
    Enno
    Henchman

    Like many rules, the magic in Hellfrost is still based on the SWEX version. Some features from SWD are introduced by edges like Spell Finesse.

    It is still possible to buff the whole group. Our skald raised his arcane skill to d12, then conjured up his buffs, while the sword of Tiw took over the others. Then they dropped these extra spells for the day. With 4-6 players this is easy to accomplish, even with -3 due to maintaining.

    High Priest of Hoenir & Champion of Qedeshet

    #9092
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I struggle with balancing Boost/ Lower Trait and other maintained spells in Hellfrost. A priest, in particular, with just that one power (and a signature power) can spend 4 advancements (Arcane Background, d10 Faith) and buff any 5 traits or skills any time and all day.
    Invisibility is another powerful spell: -6 to be noticed and if you are, -6 to be hit be ranged or melee. Deflection, ethereal, shapechange and elemental shape are also pretty good.
    I tried to think how to balance these without nerfing magic in general, but don’t have a really good answer.

    #9093
    Enno
    Henchman

    A priest, in particular, with just that one power (and a signature power) can spend 4 advancements (Arcane Background, d10 Faith) and buff any 5 traits or skills any time and all day.

    What have advancements to do with maintained spells?

    As far as balance is concerned, I have pointed out to you the strict treatment of sins and the “social rules”, mate. 😉

    High Priest of Hoenir & Champion of Qedeshet

    #9094
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Enno said: What have advancements to do with maintained spells?

    My understanding is that faith (purchased with advancements) determines # of maintainable spells (faith/2)?

    Enno said: As far as balance is concerned, I have pointed out to you the strict treatment of sins and the “social rules”, mate.

    You have, and I appreciate the insight it provided- but I continue having problems and was hoping for more help.

    #9095
    Enno
    Henchman

    I struggle with balancing Boost/ Lower Trait and other maintained spells in Hellfrost. A priest, in particular, with just that one power (and a signature power) can spend 4 advancements (Arcane Background, d10 Faith) and buff any 5 traits or skills any time and all day.

    No, because most priestly characters are already created with an arcane background, and an arcane skill of d6 or d8.
    As mentioned before a reasonable spellcaster boosts his arcane skill to d10 or d12 in the morning. So he will go up to 3 or 4 maintained spells, because maxing out the maintained spells reduces casting any other spells you might want to cast over the day.
    Secondly, you don’t boost yourself alone, but also other characters in your party, often with the support of an eventual second spellcaster, like a magician. So our spellcaster ends up with a boost or two for himself, lifting him 2 dice higher a best.
    Thirdly, if your party does such day-long buffing (with boost, armor, and similar supportive spells) so does the enemy. Orcs, goblins, and giants ain’t that stupid. If they have a shaman or priest at their disposal he will buff his important wild cards too.
    Here is the main part of “balancing”.
    And compared to the fighter types out there, next to being supported by their spellcasters, alchemy is widely available for all.

    Invisibility is another powerful spell: -6 to be noticed and if you are, -6 to be hit be ranged or melee. Deflection, ethereal, shapechange and elemental shape are also pretty good.

    Those are very special spells with very special applications. Some are widely available, others are not, being restricted to certain cults or arcane backgrounds. Considering trappings, most even have some penalties or two. And some, like Invisibility, are mentioned to be carefully looked at by any GM.
    One of the easiest tools are good lookouts to look for signs like tracks in the snow in the case of Invisibility, or silhouettes when walking through snowfall or rain.
    There might be even noticeable signs like sounds, warmth, or a shimmering, depending on the trapping.
    Then there is Detect. Even in its corrected Instant form, it is the most powerful spell out there, and one of the most available. And being of Novice rank it is affordable as alchemical devices.

    So there is always leverage to a seemingly powerful spell. Just study the rules, certain edges, and spells. There are no perfect edge, skill or spell combos out there. There is always an Achilles heel out there.

    Finally, the rules to “balance” your characters are out there. Use them! Do you really enforce any Hazards on your group? Hellfrost knows a lot of them, and being applied they are deadly even to the hardiest characters. Hunger, thirst, poison, diseases, fire, smoke, and especially cold are much more dangerous than you might realise.

    High Priest of Hoenir & Champion of Qedeshet

    #9096
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Why would my players not take Boost/ Lower Trait spell for every priest it’s available for, either immediately on character creation or shortly thereafter?

    It seems a much better option than most other powers, with a few comparable, such as Shapechange, Elemental Form, Detect/Conceal, Puppet or summon X. The hallmark of each of these is flexibility- the character is given a wide range of options, compared to, say, Lock/Unlock.

Viewing 10 posts - 1 through 10 (of 36 total)
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