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Combining Effects
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CanuckAlchemist

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:00 am    Post subject: Combining Effects Reply with quote

Another Alchemical question, although any damage and stat affecting art could use this.

Is such a potion permissible uner the rules?

Base 2
Range 0 (thrown flask)
Duration: 1 (30 seconds)
Area of Effect: 2 (10' radius)
Effect:6 (2 for Secondary Stat Effect: -4 to Secondary Stat) + 4 (8 N Damage)
Rating: 11

Can you double up on an effect? What I am thinking of is an enhanced flash bomb. The Stun reduction (lasting 30 seconds) lowers the Stun rating of the targets and the flash bang will cause enough damage to stun them for several minutes (hopefully).

Could the flash bang effect of a thrown flask (or a spell) simultaneously lower a person's Stun rating, AND then use the lowered Stun Rating to determine if they are knocked out?

If so, does the potion have to last 30 seconds? or is the effect immediate? (Saving 1 Die on the Difficulty rating).
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TAG Wiggy

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flash bombs don't tend to knock you out. This is more a powerful concussion grenade. That said, it looks okay at first glance. I think the effect would be immediate -- either the blast knocks you out or it doesn't.
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CanuckAlchemist

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well that makes for a nasty effect then, the dropping of the stun stat almost guarantees that anyone caught in the AoE will be asleep for a couple of minutes.

That being said, a caster and not an Alchemist would have a stronger spell. Choosing the People column and not the Area column means a spell could be cast into melee without dropping his friends. An Alchemist can't do that, but he could make batches of the flasks and keep them handy, so it evens out.

A Stun reducing effect is a nasty attack option. Any damage knocks the person out of the fight for a turn, or for a minute or more.

Spell would be a little different of course

base: 2
Range 2: 500 feet
Duration: 0 Instant
AoE 2: 2-4 people
Effect:6 [ 2 ( -4 to Stun) + 4 (8 N damage) ]
Rating: 12

This spell would drop 4 people for 4 minutes on average, because their Stun rating would be 0.


Last edited by CanuckAlchemist on Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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TAG Wiggy

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sleep spell. Smile
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CanuckAlchemist

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure if you saw the spell edit I did Wiggy.

Well it is a sort of sleep spell. A flask would likely be noisy, a concussion grenade, but maybe not, it might be a stun gas that is quiet. Not sure of the trapping to make the material spray out to fill the Area of Effect. Conucssion grenades attract attention, the little hocky puck disc in Ocean 11 just released a gas that knocked the guards out.


The spell variant could be silet, just spirits attacking the body. Depending on the art and traapigns you chose.

Hmm, that brings up another question. What Art could do this? Aeromancy could shock people, which might be noticeable if lightning is arcing down,
Homomancy for sure, maybe enchantment in some way,
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The GIT!

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:22 am    Post subject: Re: Combining Effects Reply with quote

CanuckAlchemist wrote:
Could the flash bang effect of a thrown flask (or a spell) simultaneously lower a person's Stun rating, AND then use the lowered Stun Rating to determine if they are knocked out?

Personally I wouldn't allow this to work. The effects of the grenade would be immediate and happen at the same time; hence, I wouldn't allow the Stun rating to be reduced and then use the reduced score to calculate the stun effect of the grenade.

I'm not against combining effects in a spell or potion but I am against one effect compounding another when they both take effect at the same time.

Just my 2c worth.
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CanuckAlchemist

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well an Alchemist making labwork potions could get around that by making the effect a two stage potion, with differing onset times.

First step is immediate and lowers the victims Stun rating, the second effect takes place a turn later and acts as a delayed action narcotic.

Actually easier to make

Base 2
Range 0
Duration 0 + 0 (lab work 12 hours, offset time of a turn. Still no real cost here) or 1 to pay for a slight delay effect.
Area of Effect: 2 10' radius
Effect: 6 (2 for Stun Rating -4 + 4 for 8N damage, or at this point as a Narcotic effect you may want to go to the Opposed Dice and do 8 Opposed versus Stun to Stun a person) depending on how the GM wants to classify the stunning agent (concussive force versus a tranquilizer/stunning narcotic type effect). The numbers stay the same, it's just the mechanic he wants to roll on.

Rating: 10 or 11
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The GIT!

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CanuckAlchemist wrote:
Well an Alchemist making labwork potions could get around that by making the effect a two stage potion, with differing onset times.

First step is immediate and lowers the victims Stun rating, the second effect takes place a turn later and acts as a delayed action narcotic.

Actually easier to make

Except the rules don't allow for delayed onset times (short of houseruling). That and the fact that I would probably rule a potion takes effect when it takes effect. For effects to take place at different times would, in my games at least, require different potions. Hence, not actually easier to make (or administer for that matter).
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raikenclw

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The GIT! wrote:
For effects to take place at different times would, in my games at least, require different potions. Hence, not actually easier to make (or administer for that matter).


Two flasks, two throws, two chances to miss/not break, targets might move between throws, the drugs might have unforeseen interactions (with each other and/or with the beer/wine the targets drank for lunch . . .), Big Guy doesn't breathe deep enough to get a full dose of one or the other (or had too much skin covered, if it's a contact drug), etc, etc, etc.

Yep. A GM could have loads of fun, with this. Smile
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Althalus

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two vials in one flask. Twisted Evil No problem for a glass-maker to create and the base for double-compound chemicals to work. Two potions, one container which breaks with one throw.
Nothing magical here ...
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The GIT!

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was thinking more in a social environment in which the subject (victim) has to have something slipped in to their wine without anybody else noticing either.

We had a situation like this occur a number of sessions back in my campaign in which CanuckAlchemist had prepared some powerful potions to be given to Milady de Winter (now known as Charlotte Backson in my game) in order to help a fellow musketeer attempt to seduce her.

Some very entertaining situations occurred at a party and it really helped define social encounters for the AFO setting. I also leveraged the Seduction rules from the James Bond 007 RPG to make things more fun Twisted Evil
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Althalus

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even this could be accomplished with a mundane two-compartement container. Two potions/powders that can be poured at once.

As GM you could ask about some side-effects of the two substances - I like to let my players ride for a fall, trying to trivialize such things. Twisted Evil More often than not, their arguments lead to even badder things that I would´ve thought about myself.
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raikenclw

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Althalus wrote:
Two vials in one flask . . . one container which breaks with one throw.


I don't know about that. How do you make sure the inner container(s) are fragile enough to *also* break when the outer container does, without making them fragile enough to break ahead of time?

I work as a motel night auditor and as part of my job, I make a LOT of coffee, using "air pots" - modern, commercial grade vacuum flask dispensers. We have to replace one of these every month - on average - due to loss of vacuum integrity, just from normal handling. So I can't imagine a hand-blown flask which is INTENDED to break would be very trustworthy for holding volatile potions.
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Althalus

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Think primitive! Wink
Two glass vials that are welded together when still hot. They have two necks and two bodies - but throw it and the whole thing breaks at impact.

Such things were actually in use back then - but were not very reliable and had to be handled with care. As the glass had different thickness, you could break one compartement by throwing it, while leaving the other intact, but you could also break the whole thing by just glancing on a table.

So, the alchemist makes reliable potions - but uses a not-so-reliable container. Fun for the GM ... Twisted Evil
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raikenclw

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Althalus wrote:
Two glass vials that are welded together when still hot. They have two necks and two bodies - but throw it and the whole thing breaks at impact.


Ah!

Well - were I the alchemist - I would probably keep my potions in very solid containers (fired clay inside metal shells?), only transfering these into Battle Bottles (designed to break easily) just prior to expected need.

Of course, that also gives an inventive GM plenty of opportunity for fun! Ambush, anyone?
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