Triple Ace Games Forum Index Triple Ace Games
ARCHIVE FORUM - POSTING LOCKED
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

How to prevent TPK's
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Triple Ace Games Forum Index -> Hellfrost
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Starhawk

Deuce


Joined: 16 Feb 2012
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It'll happen as soon as my Rogue Trader campaign comes to a halt. Hopefully before Gen Con this year.

The up side of slaughtering two groups in Blood on the Snow: I have a really good idea of exactly what sort of numbers Novice groups can handle, and what they can't. And now, so do they. We hadn't run a Savage Worlds scenario that ended up in such merciless butt-kicking before, and ended up learning a lot about the system.

This should make them more willing to run away when the Really Bad Stuff comes out in the course of a normal campaign. It served to break their D&D conditioning a little bit: "There's a Challenge Rating system, everything is balanced... that means if I see it, I can fight it!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
DMDoom

Deuce


Joined: 14 Oct 2010
Posts: 58
Location: Portland, Or

PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello, My name is DMDoom and I'm a recovering D&D player. Razz

So it seems your players approached this game with the mentality of those who've been inundated with the D20 system. A system where, sure, you can duck behind a wall for cover, but that keeps you from closing to melee range and dishing out damage, who needs tactics when that gets in the way of you getting up in the enemies face with a rage-lance-pounce? What's 20hp from a few arrows?

My players had similar experience.

Just bear in mind that Savage Worlds actually does assume that extras will be used, as will tactics, remind the players from time to time that sometimes they might need a little extra help. Tricks and Taunts are damn useful as well. Though I have to admit to a certain glee when PC's first realize that they might be in over their head and actually aren't capable of handling every encounter by kicking down the door.
_________________
Oh what a to-do to die today,
at a minute or two till two.

Yeah, that little poem is about a person getting sacrificed to a dragon, surprisingly fitting no?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Energy

Deuce


Joined: 25 Jan 2012
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a tricky problem. It's especially tricky in a game that isn't quite sure where it wants to fall on the scale of realism.

Problem 1: In a game where foes can do damn near anything, how do you signpost how challenging a fight is?

In the real world, we've all (well mostly) got an excellent sense for what sorts of things are bad ideas to fight. Fighting people that are bigger than you is bad. Fighting when you're outnumbered gets you killed. You know this instinctively.

In fantasy/pulp/action movie land, this is no problem. If there's a big guy, the good guys will dispatch him through teamwork. If there's a swarm of mooks, they'll all fall to one kick from Bruce Lee. Because this trope is so inherent to all fiction, any RPG group is going to get slaughtered when they fight a whole bunch of tough guys because it will go totally against the "reality" of how we know stories of heroes work.

For extra problems, fantasy games make this one extra crazy. There's not really a way to practically assess threats when you encounter something you don't recognize. Quickly now, which of the following is too tough for you to fight: a guy in a robe, a sentient pile of rocks, a beggar, a guy with a two-handed axe or a dragon? Maybe the dragon's the toughest. Maybe the robed figure is a powerful wizard, then again he might just work in a scriptorium. Maybe you can stab the pile of rocks with your sword until it stops moving. The beggar's clearly dangerous because your GM put him there to mess with you. Unfortunately for you, you probably won't know how tough they are until you poke them.

Problem 2: You can't really run away. There's too many of you.

If you suddenly find that you can't win a fight you're in, you're not nearly as good at getting away as you might hope. If you're in melee, you're going to soak up extra hits as you leave which might well kill you. Even if you're not in melee at the moment, it'll take several rounds of running before you're out of reach of an enemy with a bow. God forbid the enemy has a wizard with them, he might be able to rain explosive death on you from up to 96 squares away.

The game mechanics also really don't support you running. You can take an action to run, but you'll only move 3.5 squares farther than people who aren't running. If your pursers have ranged attacks, they can take the luxury of not running and pick you off with attacks for quite a while. If you're running, you can return fire, but at an extra -2 from MAP. Since we've already determined that this was a fight you weren't winning before, you're sure to be extra not-winning it now.

There's also an excellent chance that you are inherently slower than what you're fighting. If you're wounded, there go some extra squares from your pace. If you're being chased by extras, they literally can't be slower than you are since they never take wounds. Since you all role your running dice individually, there will always be a tail-end Charlie waiting to get picked off. In a fantasy game, there's also an excellent chance that the monster you're fighting has a pace greater than 6 to begin with, in which case none of you actually can get away.

Lastly there's a social cost in running away. In the real world, the people you abandon to die in the face of the oncoming orc horde have the decency to die. At the gaming table, the abandoned live on (hopefully for a good long time). So while Sir Slowpoke would take the secret of your cowardice with him to his grave, his player Steve will probably remind you of what a coward you were each time you see him for the next several months.

Problem 3: Realism isn't all that it's cracked up to be.

So say you've managed to correctly convey the dangers of combat to your players. Congratulations! You can look forward to the same kind of horrifically boring mission planning work that you can find in the armed forces. Thrill as battlefields are scouted and engagements planned in real time over the course of hours! You'll be on the edge of your seat while your players pragmatically decide that the king has other daughters so there's no need to storm the heavily defended castle to rescue this one. While some games may have combats spanning seconds that take hours to resolve, your game has that AND hours of pre-combat prep! In every session! On the plus side, since the players will waste so much of each session thinking about what to do in the upcoming fight, you as the GM have a lot less per-session prep work to do. Relax and browse Facebook, big guy; you've earned it. Laughing

(Depending on your group, this may also be known as "Why we never play Shadowrun anymore")



So while your inner realist may want the thrill of the potential TPK encounters, your inner fun-haver is probably better suited crafting winnable combats and maybe throwing in a totally explicit "Y'all should run from this guy" if you want to run a chase scene.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DMDoom

Deuce


Joined: 14 Oct 2010
Posts: 58
Location: Portland, Or

PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Confused

Point 1: Personally, I find Savage Worlds finds a nice balance between making players badass and quite mortal. It lacks the "Meh, sure he critted me, but I still have 40 hit points left!" aspect of D20 systems, players can trounce enemies in a battle but the system itself encourages a little caution. A group of Novices might be able to handle 3 to 1 odds when going up against that maddened mob of villagers, but they probably want to make sure Sir Brickhead doesn't wade into them so they can all get a nice gang-up bonus on him. It's helps ensure that you don't hear "I'm going to mess with the city guard because there's no way any of them are high enough level to even *touch* my AC!" (gods, memories of high school) and instead hear "Twenty members of the corrupt barons guards? Alright, perhaps we should go with them and hear what they have to say."

Point 2: This is Savage Worlds, not 3.5 D&D pre-Curse of the Crimson Throne AP by Paizo. There are chase rules to avoid the very issues you mention here.

Point 3: No, realism isn't what it's cracked up to be, otherwise everyone's favorite RPG would be "Fatal." Thankfully Savage Worlds is designed to encourage heroism, just not outright stupidity.

I once ran a 3.5 Forgotten Realms game, it was a good campaign, the PC's were attempting to foil the plot of evil necromancers who were sending undead forces against a keep. I got to introduce beauties such as "Spell-stitched Ghouls" and other new monsters I'd recently gained access to. One player wound up going up against a horde of 20 ghouls. Not Ghasts, Ghouls, as in a little tougher than zombies. It was a complete and utter fluke that he died in that encounter. A situation that should, no matter how badass a player is, give someone pause before wading into melee.

It's all about balance in the end. You need a game where players can feel badass, but not immortal and godlike at 8th level.
_________________
Oh what a to-do to die today,
at a minute or two till two.

Yeah, that little poem is about a person getting sacrificed to a dragon, surprisingly fitting no?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Energy

Deuce


Joined: 25 Jan 2012
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DMDoom wrote:
Confused
I may have failed to properly indicate my tone. I intended to commiserate about how tough it can be to get good encounters for everybody, not rain on your parade.

Re #1: Yep. SW is an inherently lower fantasy game than D&D. Since dice explode and toughness isn't changing by much more than 6 in an entire campaign, even fairly mundane archers stay deadly and scary the whole way through. Conversely, D&D becomes a super hero game right quick. That cleric may ostensibly belong in LotR, but once he starts flying and shooting spells, he might as well be Iron Man. Wink

Re #2: Unfortunately the chase rules are terrible. Melee chasers are horrifically ineffective (a wildcard foe with a d12 in Agility that is more than twice as fast as the PCs will manage to get in roughly 1.5 attacks on the PCs over the entire course of a five round chase.) Ranged attacks make zero sense (I drew a 10 of spades, so I am 7 squares away from the bad guys if I want to throw a knife, but at least 25 away if I have a bow equipped? ) Hell if you're fighting more things than you can kill in 5 rounds of shooting, you might be better off not drawing any cards at all (you've got about a 25% chance of having to make a trait roll to avoid fatigue, but if you're not dead after 5 rounds of running you get away automatically).

It's also a weird thing to transition to. Should the GM ask the party after each round of combat if they all want to run? Should they have to get their minis to the end of the battle map first?

Has anyone got any anecdotes of good experiences with the chase rules to share?


Last edited by Energy on Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:12 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Liche-Priest

Deuce


Joined: 26 Oct 2011
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your group needs incentive to pick Hellfrost, feel free to tell them this:

I was HIGHLY sceptical about Hellfrost at first. I'm an old DnD grognard, a friend of mine fell in love with SW, and so we wanted to try something. Knowing the SW ruleset, I was perplexed you could have good fantasy games with it.

I was VERY wrong. Hellfrost is great because:

1. it has a wagonload of player-centric mechanics and unique subsistems. Nothing is predictable or boring. Your classic wizard has a unique spin, your traditional sorceror has funny mechanics - and then there's the really unique stuff. The world if frozen, so fire magic is theorycally powerful but terribly hard to pull off; frost magic is much more accessible, but the world is better trained to face it. There's hrimwyzards throwing icebergs* at you and there's plate-wearing mercenaries riding pigmy mammoths. You've got Inuit-like hunters who trade with frost elves and you've got mongol-like warlords who think they're actually dragons.
The amount of things your players can do beyond the scope of the core SW rules is amazing. If they're not building an household, they can be collecting Glory for unique rewards; they may be looking for ancient scrolls or collecting artefacts that actually feel epic. You can run roleplay-centric games or you can run dungeons romps and while the former work better in my experience, the latter still work great.

2. the setting isn't TPK-oriented. It's very, very brutal, but give your players the following information:
    - magic is a great ally in Hellfrost. Magic is very dangerous, and thus rare, but if you have access to it, it can help the group more than in most PP-based setting. Healing your group in Hellfrost is comparatively easier than in other SW products, so unless the party is completely annihilated, you can generally handle brutal fights without pacing problems.
    - Hellfrost characters tend to be a bit more powerful than "normal" SW characters. They will earn extra Edges and powers through Glory; they can get favours from the Gods themselves, or gain the help of powerful organizations; they can enlist very powerful extras to help them in combat; and once again, magic is spectacularly powerful (when it doesn't backfire)
    - this isn't Hellfrost exclusive, but SW handles TPKs rather elegantly. First, character death is easy to avoid if you plan your benny usage wisely; second, if you use Adventure Cards (I strongly recommend it for Hellfrost) you can generally spin the TPK toward a direction that doesn't kill the game.


3. the main reason to play Hellfrost is the quality of the manuals. I don't think I've seen anything published for SW (except maybe Solomon Kane) that compares in quality.
The Player Guide is choke full of rules, spells, gear, options, and so is the expansion. You could run a game where characters barely adventure and simply run their household, leading it to war, expanding its resources and handling justice.
The Bestiary is fantastic. It tends to be a bit undead-centric (but that's the lore), but it's expansive, with diverse creatures that don't carbon-copy the monsters we've played against in hundreds of fantasy games before. I still manage to surprise my players.
The lore is amazing. The Gazetteer is in my top 10 of best RPG products ever, and I've been RPing for 20 years. The world is gigantic, with unique regions and fantastic places to explore. The history and culture of the various races is extremely well developed, and so are the various points of interest, but it's not suffocating. Imagine something almost as big as the Forgotten Realms but nowhere as suffocating lore-wise. You get hints and hooks but you've got the freedom to expand them as you like. Every page of the book makes you feel like "I have to send my players here to do this and this and that".


I don't know what systems your group is used too, but if they come from DnD for fantasy games, tell them to rest easy. SW is nothing like DnD, but it's nothing like GURPS or WoD either. My Hellfrost group has so far managed to "win" in most situations I've faced them with (without me really pulling any punches, which is already extremely refreshing compared to my 3.5 experience Twisted Evil ); on the flipside, the Beasts and Barbarians group I play in has recently faced bitter defeat and we still came out of a TPK situation alive, through player ingenuity and not GM mercy, all within the boundaries of what the rules allow for. And while we're battered, hungry, thirsty and half dead in the middle of the desert, we're having fun and we're much more motivated to go on with the adventure and get revenge.


In short, tell your players not to be scared of SW. Yes, there's a lot of chaos in it. But chaos is built into the system, and the system is built for handling it elegantly.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Liche-Priest

Deuce


Joined: 26 Oct 2011
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a side note on the DnD comparisons:

1. sorry for the brutality, but if your party could solve every situation with violence and never fear death, you were running D&D wrong.
D&D isn't inherently less balanced than SW (actually, it's more); the problem is that you need to excalate the opposition to the level of the players. So if the lvl 8th Cleric is Iron Man, he's gonna face trolls that make the Hulk whimper.
And this all works, as long as your game is a long man vs monster romp. Heck, the last 2 D&D systems work better the higher the level is (3.5 becomes sort of problematic around lvl 10-12, but hits its best balance past level 16; 4E is more balanced across the board, but paragon tends to be the most fun, and epic is more fun than heroic, which is one of the downfall of the system - when a game is at its "worst" in the tier you meet first, you're not selling it well). The problem is when Iron Man goes back to town to buy stuff. Then it's when his superheroic nature brings up issues. He was facing gods and Tarrasques a moment before, what does he have to fear from the town guards?
That's where the narrative either bends to the fantasy (and you're forced to run comicbook games) or it falls apart. But D&D is D&D, and I've seen far more TPKs in D&D than any other game.

2. do not underestimate the safety nets that SW puts in place to avoid TPKs. Exploding dices are scary, and an unlucky roll can be devastating, but the players do retain control of their destiny.


It's ultimately a matter of tastes. I would argue no fantasy game handles combat as well as 4E, in game terms - but taking that to the extreme consequences, it does because it's basically a wargame, and risks feeling like that within the reasonable amount of suspension of disbelief - but the natural consequence of having a game that successfully makes fighting gods and dragons a fun and balanced event is that of funnelling the narrative toward a certain direction (the players are the chosen ones of doom and will become godlike beings over time, everything else just doesn't work from a logical standpoint).
On the other hand, SW allows from much more freedom in narrative terms, because it's more "naturalistic". The players will never become strong enough to face a dragon. A group of lucky novices could manage to kill it, or it could wipe out a legendary party. Such is life. And while chaos is scary, it allows you to tell any story, at any time, and any rank. My players in Hellfrost will be fighting towering demons that make Diablo look like an Imp, and then go back to town and potentially die in a bandit ambush.

And it's pretty great, imho.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Liche-Priest

Deuce


Joined: 26 Oct 2011
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Energy wrote:

Has anyone got any anecdotes of good experiences with the chase rules to share?


I got.

Generally speaking, chase rules work well if you accept the abstraction. A good storyteller is essential.

For example, in our last B&B game we had a chase where the group, after killing a powerful NPC dictator, were rushing out of town (on horses) in a fantasy desert town environment.

The tip here is: forget balance. Focus on narrative. So we had enemies on horses gaining ground, people taking shortcuts and moving out of range, archers moving on rooftops and shooting at us, angry mobs getting in the way and slowing us down.
Don't see it as a progressive thing. The card you pick doesn't represent how much you moved this turn, just your relative position. Everyone is running at the best of his speed every turn, that's the default. The cards are simply depicting what particular event is happening. The challenge is putting it all together to describe what's going on. Once again, if the narrator is up to the task the rules work wonder.
As for the advantage of ranged weapons... doesn't it make sense? Try hitting a guy running away from you with a stick.



Then, an example of where creativity can take you...


The NSFW Hellfrost Chase scene.

Our resident Frostborn warrior, the feared and somewhat loathed son of the Jarl, didn't of course have the easiest childhood, and things didn't pick up as a teenager. Approaching girls wasn't easy. In short, he was a 23 years old virgin.

One night in the local tavern he drinks too much, and as the Interlude comes up, he draws a card that tells he has to share something personal. So, his virginity comes up.

The female barbarian at the table smirks, while the rest of the group laughs, and challenges him to armswresting. If he can beat her, she will "solve" his problem.

Not really sure how to handle this crazy situation... I made it a chase. Minimal flipping of the rules, and we handled it while eating pizza and laughing like crazy. In the end, the Frostborn barely lost (he didn't manage to score enough successes in time). Our Frost Dwarf player took pity on him, and played an adventure card in his advantage. One of the tavern wenches overheard the discussion, and being somewhat attracted to the handsome frostborn lord, and more curious than scared, eventually slipped in his room and deflowered him.


End of the NSFW story.


Yeah, we have all kind of crazy stuff happening. But the bottom line is, chase rules are so good that will get you laid.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Enno

King of Clubs


Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Posts: 2623
Location: Ulm, Germany

PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chases, as Mass Battles, are one of those abstract rules in SW, that live by the storytelling, not by the dice rolls.

And both are rules that don't blend with the "battlemap mode". If you have a chase, you have a chase. Every mode stands on its own!

Attacking somebody in a chase, regardless if afoot, or riding a storm dragon, is somewhat tricky with abstract positioning in Deluxe. The older SWEX chase rules use range increments here, and so attacking an opponent is bit clearer here.

Take our groups last chase in Nara, for example. They unveiled the secret hideout of Niht assassins. Two perps fled via a secret backdoor, and we had a nice run through corrals, over pastures and patches, thru narrow alleys and broader lanes between the longhouses of Nara. They tricked each other, tried Tests of will, got the local fyrd on guard duty involved (that entered the frey as a third party), and finally wrestled each other down among some barrels and bales of wool. Along the way spears, axes and knives were thrown, some of the participants tripped, others ran into pedestrians or carts at the wayside.

Long tale short, without a colorful interpretation of the dice rolls it would have been only half the fun.

So even with these abstract rules you can recreate pretty convincing actions. And if chase rules level of detail doesn't fit the style you imagined, try one of the older versions of the rules. Each of them fits different styles of chases, like the SWEX version is more for linear chases (like my example above), the Deluxe or Revised versions fit better for real "dogfights". But thats just my personal taste...

A final word to the Deluxe chase rules. Yes, participants with Agilty are at an advantage here, as in other situations were Agility is needed. But there are always other modificators in play too, like terrain, certain edges (Acrobat, Fleet Footed, Snow Walker), visibility, traffic density, wounds, fatigue, spells, other obstacles etc. So a general "High Agility guy wins always a chase" isn't really true, because he has only a certain advantage, as the dice rolls have the final call. And even the guys with the most cards on their hands ain't always lucky, as any Deadlands Classic player can tell you. With botched dice rolls you won't get anywhere with that! Wink
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
JDSampo

Deuce


Joined: 27 Jun 2011
Posts: 106
Location: Next to the Blasted Heath

PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Energy wrote:
Has anyone got any anecdotes of good experiences with the chase rules to share?


I'd have to agree that our first (and only) experience with the SWD chase rules was less than stellar but I can take responsibility for that. Basically I didn't have my crap together. I thought I did before we started, but there was too much dithering on my part once we got going. If I had the rules down better so the crunch ran more smoothly, there would have been more narrative stuff going on and mechanics would have taken a back seat.

Energy wrote:
It's also a weird thing to transition to. Should the GM ask the party after each round of combat if they all want to run? Should they have to get their minis to the end of the battle map first?


I'd like to try the chase rules again but I probably wouldn't use them to model a break away from combat situation. Horse racing, chasing bandits, getting to Bjornstead before the orcs, a running ship-to-ship battle, sure.
_________________
My God! It's full of fries!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Enno

King of Clubs


Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Posts: 2623
Location: Ulm, Germany

PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JDSampo wrote:
I'd like to try the chase rules again but I probably wouldn't use them to model a break away from combat situation. Horse racing, chasing bandits, getting to Bjornstead before the orcs, a running ship-to-ship battle, sure.


Why not?! Normally the situation presents itself, when a break from combat is imminent and leads to a chase (whatever rules you use). In the case of said one-shot, a chase may start, if they managed to draw the fighting into the darker entrance area and/or the opponents left them enough room to flee.

A little dirty trick btw is the (underappreciated) moving past enemies maneuver. That's why the lines have to stay closed!!!

As soon as the passed enemy lines the chase may start! Wink
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
JDSampo

Deuce


Joined: 27 Jun 2011
Posts: 106
Location: Next to the Blasted Heath

PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Enno wrote:
Why not?!


I guess I mean that I wouldn't use that as my default method of handling a retreat by the party. It would really depend on the situation. I think there are useful ways to "fight out" a tactical retreat that my group would find more interesting than jumping into an abstract chase mechanic. But at some point they might tell me "screw this we're bugging out as fast as possible" in which case it might make more sense to invoke the chase rules or even just let them go if it better serves the narrative.
_________________
My God! It's full of fries!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Enno

King of Clubs


Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Posts: 2623
Location: Ulm, Germany

PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JDSampo wrote:
Enno wrote:
Why not?!


I guess I mean that I wouldn't use that as my default method of handling a retreat by the party. It would really depend on the situation. I think there are useful ways to "fight out" a tactical retreat that my group would find more interesting than jumping into an abstract chase mechanic. But at some point they might tell me "screw this we're bugging out as fast as possible" in which case it might make more sense to invoke the chase rules or even just let them go if it better serves the narrative.


Good points!

Don't see chases, as a simple "running away" though. See it as an easy and fast way to manage a possibly lengthy retreat situation. Instead of moving figure flats over lengthly maps, a chase is much better to handle.

Yes, it is assumed that you run, but that can redefined to "as fast as possible". And if they move under Defend mode, they are much slower. The rules don't get unrealistic, just because the participants move a bit slower...

The rules are flexible enough, to be use more "creative" then usual...
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
JDSampo

Deuce


Joined: 27 Jun 2011
Posts: 106
Location: Next to the Blasted Heath

PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Enno wrote:
Don't see chases, as a simple "running away" though. See it as an easy and fast way to manage a possibly lengthy retreat situation. Instead of moving figure flats over lengthly maps, a chase is much better to handle.


Oh absolutely! There's a time and a place for everything really.
_________________
My God! It's full of fries!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Triple Ace Games Forum Index -> Hellfrost All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Protected by Anti-Spam ACP